Memory bit flips cause up to 15% of Firefox crashes, asserts Mozilla engineer — figure inferred from 470,000 auto-submitted crash reports
Some proportion of these bit flip-induced crashes will be due to a cosmic ray passing through.
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A Mozilla engineer has shared survey data and calculations suggesting that up to 15% of Firefox crashes are due to a bit flip. For the purposes of this report, a bit flip occurs when a memory cell (RAM, cache, etc) updates its value from 0 to 1, or vice-versa, following some unintentional external input. The most common triggers for bit flips are thought to be electrical issues and instability, thermal effects, underlying manufacturing defects and aging, crosstalk, and even memory cells being flipped by an ionizing cosmic ray.
No one seems to have a hard figure for the biggest bit flip contributor. However, systems sent to space will use specialized components hardened to resist interference from cosmic radiation, extremes of temperature, etc, and to include aggressive error checking.
The Mozilla team received nearly half a million auto-submitted crash reports last week (opt-in feature). Data from a recently introduced “memory tester that runs on user machines after the browser crashes,” guided senior engineer Gabriele Svelto towards his eyebrow-raising bit flips, causing 15% of crashes figure, which he admits “dwarfs all the previous estimates I saw regarding this problem.”
Mozilla employed, self-confessed ‘old school nerd’ Svelto says that an initial 10% estimate was revised up because “If I subtract crashes that are caused by resource exhaustion (such as out-of-memory crashes) this number goes up to around 15%.” Moreover, it was determined that one in two bit flip crashes was due to a “genuine hardware issue.” Svelto notes this could be undershooting the real figure as Mozilla’s memory test on crash feature “only checks up to 1 GiB of memory and runs for no longer than 3 seconds.”
Thus, it is hard to drill down to probably the most fascinating statistic of how many Firefox crashes are precipitated by an errant cosmic ray passing though…
As a parting shot, Svelto doesn’t want fancy Arm-based MacBook owners, or any other niche device owner, thinking this is just about PCs with shaky RAM. Every device with memory can be affected by bit flips, asserts the engineer. That doesn’t matter if it’s a Mac, smartphone, or even a printer or router. From that perspective, PC desktop DIYers are probably in a better position, as they can replace any faulty component without throwing away the whole caboodle. But please, great cosmic ray caster in the sky, please don’t make me think I have RAM issues in 2026…
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Zaranthos I don't use ECC memory. After years of using Firefox and Thunderbird daily for work and home I don't even remember either crashing. I also lost interest in overclocking years ago so I don't push my hardware much at all. I favor stability over performance and just buy high end hardware with quality in mind.Reply -
PEnns Firefox crashes??Reply
That's news to me and millions of users. I have never even read anything about this subject till now.
Maybe those like me who never had Firefox crash on them but don't have "bits that flip" and do have space shields against "ionizing cosmic rays"!! -
QuarterSwede This has been a known issue for a lot longer than Firefox or even Mozilla being around. I had ECC memory on one machine once and literally stopped having crashing issues that would take the OS down. Can’t remember the OS but this was about 20 years ago. If you think it’s unlikely that cosmic rays can cause issues, just read up on how NASA ensures computers continue to function in space where there is no atmosphere and magnetic sheilding of Earth around.Reply -
Li Ken-un ReplyZaranthos said:I don't use ECC memory.
And ECC memory is the very epitome of “high-end hardware” and “quality” for memory. 🙂Zaranthos said:I favor stability over performance and just buy high end hardware with quality in mind. -
Sippincider Reply
As chips get ever denser and higher capacity, it's surprising bit-flips aren't much more of a problem than they already are.Li Ken-un said:And ECC memory is the very epitome of “high-end hardware” and “quality” for memory. 🙂
What point will EEC memory be a necessity? -
Li Ken-un Reply
I would argue that it already has been.Sippincider said:What point will EEC memory be a necessity?
Making ECC RAM a baseline requirement for all systems that I purchase or build has made my systems much less annoying to use—palpable reduction in blue screening, random reboots, and data corruption.
I’ve also recently figured out how to close the loop all the way by flipping on PCIe ECRC and T-10 PI on SSDs to cover the entire pathway between data at rest and hot memory. -
usertests Reply
I don't think Intel is the only culprit anymore. You have technical support with AMD, but many motherboards that "support" ECC by running with it but not using ECC mode.Midnitte said:This is exactly why Linus Torvalds advocates for ECC memory
(DDR5's internal ECC doesn't count for anyone wondering.)
If you need a ninth chip for every eight, that's going to raise the cost. But it's a one-time, proportional increase to non-ECC memory. I think it's worthwhile.
I hope that it becomes mandatory for consumers when 3D DRAM takes off, possibly out of necessity with higher density 3D memory being affected more by cosmic rays passing through multiple layers at a time, and because entire layers of the structure in each die could be devoted to ECC, instead of adding a whole extra die. Check back in 10 years. -
Notton That's a lot of bit flippingReply
AFAIK bit flipping is not only caused by cosmic rays, but electrical interference, heat, and insufficient voltage can also cause it.
I'd assume the vast majority of that 15% is caused by RAM that needs more voltage to run at the speeds they are running at. -
coolitic Reply
Good thing DDR5 comes w/ on-die ECC.Midnitte said:This is exactly why Linus Torvalds advocates for ECC memory