Thermal Grizzly scammed out of $46,000 by Alibaba metals suppliers — company spread the risk across two copper and aluminum suppliers, only for both to send cheaper, fake materials
All that glitters is not copper.
Get 3DTested's best news and in-depth reviews, straight to your inbox.
You are now subscribed
Your newsletter sign-up was successful
Thermal Grizzly (TG) has been stung by fake materials sellers based in China, with nearly $50,000 down the drain. Expert overclocker Roman ‘Der8auer’ Hartung’s computer accessories firm had been struggling to source copper and aluminum plates in Europe, so it decided to source alternative suppliers in the Far East. Despite some sage-sounding precautions and some diligence, TG received two separate shipments composed largely of fake material.
If you’ve been wondering about TG product stock, shipments, and delays, then the video above might help you understand what’s been happening behind the scenes.
Der8auer says the video was not easy to make, as it is “quite embarrassing for me personally.” However, it is good to share the story if it can help just one other person or firm avoid a similar fate. In TG’s case, the bad trade has been a big loss in cash (€40,000 or ~ $46,250), time, and energy. Moreover, it still needs to source these materials and find funds to cover the extra costs.
Article continues belowSo, despite finding a pair of suppliers on Alibaba that seemed to have a solid verified track record spanning several years and corresponded professionally, they were both duds. Cautious procedures like paying just 30% up front, followed by the rest of the funds after receiving shipment confirmation, were simply not cautious enough. On receiving the shipping crates, it was one disappointment after another.
In the video, we see the ‘copper’ crate analysis first. What Der8auer received were ferric metal slabs (iron or steel) with quite a thick copper coating. So, they passed a visual test, and a corner snipped using some pliers looked good under an electron microcopy sample test.
However, the first red flag was shown when the TG boss went to test the copper slabs with a thermal surface conductivity meter. On a piece of reference copper material, the meter beeped, and the reading was 89%. However, the freshly unboxed ‘China copper’ didn’t even prompt this scientific instrument to produce a reading…
A milling machine was used to take a few millimeters off the surface of the newly imported material, and it soon revealed white metal, with sparks being produced. A small magnet confirms the actual shipped consignment consisted of “copper-coated steel plates.”
Get 3DTested's best news and in-depth reviews, straight to your inbox.
The second swindler
The second supplier’s aluminum swindle was a little different. This unscrupulous supplier had layered a few genuine aluminum slabs on top of the crate contents. Then, cheap steel plates were inserted below, and a few sheet steel voids were constructed to make the consignment roughly the expected weight for the amount of aluminum purchased.
From the video, it looks like about a quarter of the aluminum shipment was usable. After around five layers, the crates were filled with the aforementioned far-cheaper steel sheets as ballast.
There was also a copper shipment from this second supplier. Again, a few genuine sheets were on top. Like with the first supplier, though, it was soon found that most of the materials looked copper colored, but were magnetic. Another load of copper-plated steel…
A few thousand Euros for scrap
Der8auer was clearly exasperated to be swindled “twice, on this scale.” There is a possibility of getting a few thousand Euros back from the steel from a scrap dealer. Nevertheless, the loss isn’t just financial; it is to the company's reputation, delays, energy, and so on.
To conclude, the TG boss reveals that one of the suppliers no longer responds to communications. Another is still in touch, but Der8auer admits he “honestly doesn’t have much hope.” In the end, it sounds like he won’t expend any further energy pursuing justice, as “a German company doing something in China like this, it's almost impossible that you will succeed and it will cost you a lot more time and money.”
Follow 3DTested on Google News, or add us as a preferred source, to get our latest news, analysis, & reviews in your feeds.

-
SkyBill40 Reply
It's China, dude. Come on now. And while it's unfair to say that all vendors in China are unscrupulous thieves, it is fair to say that stereotypes exist for a reason.helper800 said:Is a chargeback not possible? -
BulkZerker Honestly I'm surprised anyone would humor a sub €50,000 contract when you have companies that are paying unlimited money to get raw materials as fast as possible (defense contracts for AI farms)Reply -
thisisaname Reply
I assume he did not put it on a credit card so no charge back.helper800 said:Is a chargeback not possible?
A case of buy cheap buy twice in this case thrice. -
edzieba Reply
Alibaba!= Aliexpress.helper800 said:Is a chargeback not possible?
Aliexpress is a middleman retailer, like Amazon (in its marketplace guise) or Ebay. You have some recourse if a vendor working through Aliexpress is running a scam.
Alibaba (and Taobao) are B2B platforms, where company offer services to other companies - sometimes but not always with product listings (often a nominal product listing will exist to show up in filtered searches, but all actual sales will be negotiated directly).
And since Alibaba/TaoBao merchants often also aren't the original source (i.e. You won't be dealing with a foundry or smelter directly unless you can meet massive MOQs), the actual scammer may be further back in the supply chain. The placement of genuine product on the top of the stack indicates that whoever is running the scam expects XRF or similar testing of product to occur, which means the scam is not discovered until the shipment works its way all the way to an end customer who actually breaks the pallet and starts machining the stock. -
S58_is_the_goat Reply
You pay Alibaba though so some protection should be available.edzieba said:Alibaba!= Aliexpress.
Aliexpress is a middleman retailer, like Amazon (in its marketplace guise) or Ebay. You have some recourse if a vendor working through Aliexpress is running a scam.
Alibaba (and Taobao) are B2B platforms, where company offer services to other companies - sometimes but not always with product listings (often a nominal product listing will exist to show up in filtered searches, but all actual sales will be negotiated directly).
And since Alibaba/TaoBao merchants often also aren't the original source (i.e. You won't be dealing with a foundry or smelter directly unless you can meet massive MOQs), the actual scammer may be further back in the supply chain. The placement of genuine product on the top of the stack indicates that whoever is running the scam expects XRF or similar testing of product to occur, which means the scam is not discovered until the shipment works its way all the way to an end customer who actually breaks the pallet and starts machining the stock.
When I bought an exhaust the seller messaged me to say I got it so they can get payment.
I'm guessing der8aur went around alibaba and paid them directly, they probably offered a better price. -
bit_user Props to Der8auer for going public about this scam.Reply
It seems to me that you can't reliably do direct sourcing from China, unless you have some trusted person on the ground. You need to have someone who can carefully inspect the stock in person, and arrange shipment themselves. Either that, or you deal with a trusted middle man, who has a business presence in both countries. -
Co BIY I'm surprised they bothered to ship anything at all.Reply
Goldbricking thieves.
Is getting raw material at market price that hard in Europe? I haven't heard of such difficulty here.
Although a few years back the railroads in my area replaced all their copper control and communications wires with aluminum/steel wire just to avoid theft related outages. -
passivecool Everything you need is in your landfills. Unfortunately, Americans have, for decades been too _, __, ___, and/or _ _ _ _ _ ) to recycle.<Adjectives, adverbs and expletives removed to avoid admin censorship. Fill in the blanks.>Reply
@8auer: Duh. Noob.
BTW You need to re-declare the goods with customs and pay the additional xxxl tariffs on steel. -
DS426 Alibaba has Trade Assurance which namely makes Alibaba an escrow payment holder until the buyer authorizes release of the funds, just as @S58_is_the_goat described. This means der either made the payment out-of-band from Alibaba or the scammers figured the outer coatings were thick enough to pass a quick test and run off with the payment before the buyer became all-the-wiser.Reply
If I spend $50K on something, I'm going to want that risk-free or as close as possible (high-assurance) because it's exactly times like this when fraud protection and other assurances don't exist, you're gonna get scammed. "Make the payment off-platform and we'll knock 3% off."... Yeah right!!


